Erekat: Ten EU countries to approve Palestinian embassies

Middle East • December 2010 • Views: 936

Chief PLO negotiator says Palestinian missions abroad are a step closer toward becoming embassies of an “occupied state with defined borders.”

The fact is, they have been an independent state for some time. The only part of the West Bank that they do not control is Area C. But they have all of the institutions and diplomatic branches of any other independent state. They have agreed, through treaty, on the existence of Area C.

But their concept of their proposed country is Judenrein, and they want Area C to be Judenrein. And that’s the problem. The mentality that props up the belief in Judenrein is not going away. And it’s not going to stop at the newest cities in Israel.

If it weren’t for this insistance on being Judenrein, they could have had a state 40 years ago.

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10 comments

ProBosniaLiberal Sun, Dec 19, 2010 4:56:29pm

Without Area C, Palestine cannot exist effectively. Palestine would be completely surrounded by Israel, into a non-contiguous territory, and completely dependent on Israel utility-wise. And how will movement between the fragments work, considering the state of roads in the West Bank? And how would the economy work of a country that would be so dependent on another country? I have to agree with what Carl Bildt said last year about Netanyahu’s proposal.

I’m sorry to offend anyone. But sometimes, I must state my disagreement.

Bob Levin Sun, Dec 19, 2010 5:47:57pm

re: #1 ProLifeLiberal

State your disagreement. You’ll have to explain why you don’t see any chance of them cooperating, as most states do that are next to each other.

You will also have to explain what has happened to the billions of dollars and Euros in foreign aid the PA has received—because if they spent it wisely, there wouldn’t be these issues of being dependent on Israel, utility-wise.

It wouldn’t hurt to address the issue of the PA wanting their territory to be Judenrein. They’ve stated as much several times.

Not to mention that the territory they claim is theirs reaches from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

And if all they want is land, then why these constant plans for mass murder? Why the constant lying and rewriting of history? Why do they destroy Jewish archaeological relics? These facts only make sense in the same way the Nuremberg Laws were precursors to the Final Solution.

Your turn.

ProBosniaLiberal Sun, Dec 19, 2010 7:32:12pm

My disagreement is with the fact Israel has the Israeli-only road system, (among others). How in the world is their supposed to be any sort of economy when you can’t effectively move from city to city. At the same time, the money being used must be metted out for other things, such as education, creating structures of government, and policing. Facilities like water purification plants, sewage treatment plants, and utilities cost very large sums of money. I would guess that along with large, though decreasing corruption, meant they thought they could get more bang for their buck by building governmental infrastructure.

I would like to point out the fact that the PA has, at least in the past few years, been trying to moderate itself. Perhaps you saw the story about the PA trying to rein in Imams to try and promote moderate Islam. It also helps that they seem to be willing to follow the Arab Peace Plan which would put Palestine’s borders at 1967, in exchange for full diplomatic recognition of Israel by most Muslim states. The Arab League has omitted the Right of Return from their statements done frequently. Also, the hardening in Israel over Arabs may have be part of the reason for some of the rhetoric today, with the rhetoric of Arab Nationalists (like Nasser, who also caused issues in Lebanon) in the past also being very important.

Surveys in 2009 found that various factors — including the 2006 Lebanon War, stalemate in negotiations with Palestinians, failure to implement recommendations of the Or Commission, and closure of the case against Israeli Border Police troops who shot dead Israeli Arab protesters in October 2000 — have caused a radicalization in the positions of Israeli Arabs towards the State of Israel, with 41% of Israeli Arabs recognizing Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state (down from 65.6% in 2003), and 53.7% believing Israel has a right to exist as an independent country (down from 81.1% in 2003).

And as for the the destruction of sites, I would say that Palestinian anger is also there, along with paranoia that Israel would immediately claim the area around any ancient Jewish sites. I would say the destruction makes sense also if the Palestinians are ticked off about various injustices going on, when combined with paranoid created in decades past, and the fact that they see the settlements as making it impossible for a state.

Before I go to my opinion to solving the issue, I want to say that Hamas needs to be ignored entirely in these discussions, in every way. King Abdullah of Jordan has outright accused Iran of interference. It’s probably them he’s talking about.

My opinion for many years has been this: Israel completely leaves the West Bank, and the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock are under Palestinian control, especially when polls in Israel show 50% support for the building of the 3rd Temple, which would by necessity mean the destruction of both the sites. In essence, I support the Arab Peace Initiative. I would like it if Palestine would go to Jordan, but the difference in development is an issue, and the amount of money to fix that would be substantial, though it might not be impossible with enough coaxing. Part of the reason for this is cynicism. I want a moderate counter-weight in theologic terms to Saudi Arabia. While things may be liberalizing slightly under King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, that liberalization will may not survive his successor. In the end, I do want to see Saudi Arabia broken up, and absorbed by the surrounding nations. Jordan gets the western third, and UAE gets the rest.

Israel has been treated badly in the past. But it seems that the Arab States are willing to shift policy. I want an equitable solution to this. I’m really trying to not offend anyone.

Bob Levin Sun, Dec 19, 2010 8:26:38pm

Ah. Well, let’s say we start with the 1967 borders—in 1967. That’s wasn’t good enough was it? What happened then was a military buildup and the threat of genocide. You’re going to have to show me when that threat officially went away, because I haven’t seen any such statement from the PA.

Regarding funds, what do you think could have been bought with the 40 million dollars that went for weaponry that filled the Karin A.? I can think of a few things related to education and agriculture.

I notice that religion has popped into your arguments, regarding the building of a 3rd Temple. Are you that well versed in Judaism to be able to talk about this? There are those who think of it like an Andy Hardy movie, hey let’s go build a temple. It’s not like that. Best to leave that out, the same way you want to leave Hamas out of the equation, even though Hamas is trying to kill Israelis every day.

You also want to leave out the fact that Fatah snipers regularly try to kill Jews while driving, hence the protection along the roadways. But even this has been modified—and presently, I don’t know the status of the roads. There are others here who are more well-versed on this subject.

I think your surveys are interesting, because I understand that the Arabs were radical enough in 1947-48, again attempting to perpetrate genocide on the Jewish people. I’ve been watching this as the PA slaughtered the Israeli Olympic team, blown up several buses who were transporting innocent civilians, women and children included, the fact that Arafat planned and perpetrated the demolition of a school bus that ONLY held children, and I’m supposed to believe that these events are meaningless? I’m not even going into the second Intifada in detail.

This is not how people negotiate over property, this is how people go to war. For property, in my world, two parties sit down and talk price. Negotiating over price does not lead to armed conflict, nor does it lead to a large mom and pop rocket/missile industry. When we bought our house, we didn’t call the sellers Nazis, nor did we blow up their cars. Mostly, it was pretty boring. I didn’t even try to get a UN resolution against the previous owner. Really, it was boring.

I agree that Arab states are shifting policy. I think they see the yearly PA shakedown for what it is.

But all of the facts on the ground do not in any way fit into the paradigm of property negotiation. They fit very nicely into the paradigm of warfare.

You did not address the keystone of this conflict, the PA’s insistence that the West Bank be Judenrein. You’re cool with Judenrein?

For all of your points to make sense, you’re going to have to show me a time when the Arab world and Fatah (fine, leave out Hamas, why, I still don’t know), were fine with the Jewish state, were willing to live peacefully side by side, when a city on the other side of the green line would have been a welcome source of tax revenue rather than a causus belli.

And then you’re going to have to explain how a city located on the other side of an imaginary line really should be considered a causus belli.

Bob Levin Sun, Dec 19, 2010 8:27:08pm

re: #3 ProLifeLiberal

Sorry, I keep forgetting to hit ‘reply.’

Bob Levin Sun, Dec 19, 2010 9:18:46pm

re: #3 ProLifeLiberal

The person to talk to about the ‘roads for Jews only’ belief is Lawhawk. So, watch those posts and comments—I’ll always defer to his/her expertise on these matters.

Or just ask about the issue, off the subject.

ProBosniaLiberal Sun, Dec 19, 2010 9:41:30pm

re: #6 Bob Levin

You have an email? I wanted to fully explain why I have my views on this issue.

Bob Levin Sun, Dec 19, 2010 11:28:24pm

re: #7 ProLifeLiberal

Really, don’t sweat it. There are plenty of folks here who are happy to talk about the issue, argue about it, answer questions, ask questions….

I try to post things which I hope will bring clarity to the issue, at the moment trying to dispel the notion that this war, which has gone on for over 60 years, is about property. It is about something much deeper and darker. And the thing is, we’ve seen it before—right before all of this started.

I understand the strong impulse within many people, that there must be some solution to this. Yes, it has caused pain on both sides, and there are plenty of folks living in the West Bank who want peace, as is the case with Israelis and Jews the world over.

If you understand what this is really about, then it’s possible to work towards a solution. As long as folks think it’s about property or nationhood or UN Resolutions—this will not end at all the way good people hope it will.

ProBosniaLiberal Mon, Dec 20, 2010 3:20:54pm

Email please if possible? There’s a pretty big background to my issues.

Bob Levin Mon, Dec 20, 2010 10:57:29pm

re: #9 ProLifeLiberal

That’s a tall order. Why would it make a difference? And what are the issues? Last week some folks revealed some rather personal things, on another thread—but I don’t think you want to go there.

I’ve learned from the early days of Youtube that these conversations, although they feel personal, one to one, are not.

So, are you sure the issues are relevant to the discussion topic? Yes or no is all that is necessary to answer. And, if yes, how do you feel it shapes your opinions? Is it possible to have this discussion without going into the personal history?

Do the issues keep you from being objective? If yes, then perhaps you and I aren’t ready for such a conversation. If no, that you can be objective, then just have the conversation.

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